Naomi Klein on Obama

thanks to skurin for having this video on here, i wanted to turn this into a discussion so that more people had a chance to see it. I she makes some interesting points about just campaigning in general and it brings up the question, how progressive is the 'anything to win' attitude? really?

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Permalink Reply by Xeranar on October 31, 2008 at 5:51pm

So....Obama is not the most progressive candidate? He ran a campaign of moderate-liberalism to garner solid centralist votes in much needed states. Ms. Klein is essentially saying that Obama isn't far enough left and therefore he should lose. Well I am sorry but when facing the realities of American politics the people are stupid and less than interested in progressive movements.

Klein is a classic "Nader" which is a term I have decided to coin. A "Nader" is a far-leftist/hippie who hates the reality that there aren't enough hippies to make the national elections swing in their direction but still complain. Intellectual integrity is something that they pride themselves on but they should know that a great intellect knows when to lie and to win. I agree with her opinions but sometimes you need to shut your political ideas up, lie to the moderates, and win. Then you can turn around and join with Nancy Pelosi and the far-left to get the right agendas put through.

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Permalink Reply by Rant on October 31, 2008 at 6:35pm

That was not at all what I gleaned from the video. I actually watched the video again to try and see where you where coming from, but I got nothing. I don't believe it is her intention to divert support from Obama, but to insist on more critical thinking.

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Permalink Reply by Traveling Zach on November 1, 2008 at 9:32pm

"...political ideas up, lie to the moderates, and win." i don't think you get the point to this site...

Or this video, i think her main point is not to suspend your critical thinking... how do you miss that?

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Permalink Reply by lowkey on November 3, 2008 at 9:24pm

Interesting video. While her main point was for anyone on the extremes to not suspend our critical thinking, she did illustrate how politicians have to either sell out or lie to get elected and by the time they're elected they owe so many favors that it's no longer necessary to bribe them. With over $1B spent on this election, there are a lot of favors owed so don't be surprised when they come to collect.

The political arena leaves one no alternative, one must either be a dunce or a rogue.
- Emma Goldman

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Permalink Reply by Huwdlum on November 3, 2008 at 9:28pm

i disagree with that quote completely. we need to eliminate political parties in general. to many people make biass dicisions based on what "Party" you are. often times its the wrong decision. i heard a quote that says something like 60% of voters are voting for the same party they did last time.

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Permalink Reply by lowkey on November 3, 2008 at 11:12pm

George Washington warned us of the threat of political parties in his farewell address (link to section on political parties). Unfortunately it's human nature to herd together into like minded groups so I don't think we can eliminate political parties completely but we must work to minimize their power.

I'm intrigued by countries with five or more roughly equal political parties because it forces the parties to negotiate and work together to accomplish anything. While it may not produce results as extreme as many of us would like, it will most likely produce a result that vast majority of us could live with.

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Permalink Reply by Xeranar on November 4, 2008 at 6:25pm

I'm stating the political reality, NAIM. It isn't pretty but it works effectively.

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Permalink Reply by Huwdlum on November 1, 2008 at 9:41pm

Message is a *tad* to hateful for my likings. sometimes your posts are REALLY long and informative. but sometimes they just...hate.

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Permalink Reply by Xeranar on October 31, 2008 at 10:03pm

Well her point isn't to divert support from Obama but she takes him to task on his moderate policies which if you understood the electorate in the US wouldn't be an issue. He took the role of the "uniter." Which means that when you take that role no matter how left or right you are everything out of your mouth has to come close to the center in many respects. She is politically upset with him because he isn't saying his further left agenda since prior to the economic crisis the senate and house were going to be slim majorities which could be filibustered.

Now with the odds of a 60-seat democratic senate in sight Barack has to maintain the moderate message until Nov. 5th when the ballots have been counted. Sometimes you need to soften your position to win, it isn't as if he isn't in the democratic realm of liberalism. His health care policy isn't as leftist as Clinton's was but that can be changed. It isn't a matter of always berating the candidate to come to your issues. He has to win a majority of the country and in this day and age it can be exceedingly hard.

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Permalink Reply by Rant on November 1, 2008 at 3:20pm

Naomi Klein is fast becoming one of my heroes she is intelligent, insightful, and well researched. I think she's one of those people who realizes we need to put the breaks on before we plummet off a cliff into a hot and deep "1984". ( Please excuse the ridiculous analogies I can't help myself.)

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Permalink Reply by Xeranar on November 1, 2008 at 8:32pm

If you think we're heading for 1984 maybe you need to get outside some more. See the sunshine. Go to a park. We're no closer to 1984 than we were 50 years ago. The extreme paranoia that seems to flow through this site is starting to make me paranoid.

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Permalink Reply by kt on November 1, 2008 at 11:44pm

She wasn't "Obama bashing", like she stated. I think her main focus in this interview was to inform, just simply put real information out there...specifically stating that many people who support Obama may not realize that he doesn't stand for certain things(anti-war) that the voter may think he does because a certain organization(Move-On.org) endorses him. The clip of her speech that was shown in the beginning was about making sure that the people who voted for Obama stay on top of the issues they are concerned with. So many people become disinterested in politics after the elections are over, as if their job is done. I think it was somebody from the Flobots that said, "The real work is done between elections."

I didn't get that she was personally "politically upset" with Obama at all.