Anarchrepublimacracy (new government)

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Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 17, 2010 at 11:16am

i did read the article. i am specifically refering to "nomadic" tribes. not any tribes that settled. i will read that book, the titles i suggested are worth a look too. also maybe look up "stolen continets" and "500 nations". they are worth a read too. im not implying infallibility, but nomadic peoples have it far better off than we do. look up modern hunter gatherers, theres an estimated 70 million in the world today, we could learn much from them. peace, link.
note: research agriculture and population growth, they are directly related. that is why the humter gatherer type of living works, it will not sustain large numbers, only small groups, my whole point, smaller numbers, less chaos, less chaos, less govenment, less govenment, less war, less war, more happy people.:)

Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 17, 2010 at 11:26am

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5342572150450364780&ei=...
worth a watch: professor eisenstein "the ascent of humanity" lecture, book is great and can be found under the same name.
another to look up, derrick jensen "end game, the problem of civilization" and "end game the solution". very good ideas are out there!

Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 17, 2010 at 11:29am

one last thing. civilization is built upon slavery and non renewable resources.
civilization is finite. knowing this, we need to discover a way to live that isnt entirely based upon slavery and the exploitation of our only home. pretty simple to understand.

Permalink Reply by lowkey on February 17, 2010 at 1:39pm

i did read the article. i am specifically refering to "nomadic" tribes. not any tribes that settled. i will read that book, the titles i suggested are worth a look too. also maybe look up "stolen continets" and "500 nations". they are worth a read too. im not implying infallibility, but nomadic peoples have it far better off than we do. look up modern hunter gatherers, theres an estimated 70 million in the world today, we could learn much from them. peace, link. note: research agriculture and population growth, they are directly related. that is why the humter gatherer type of living works, it will not sustain large numbers, only small groups, my whole point, smaller numbers, less chaos, less chaos, less govenment, less govenment, less war, less war, more happy people.:)

OK while I do agree that less government will result in less war and more happiness, I do not agree that anarcho-primitivism is the way to achieve it.

First the nomadic hunters were not living an easy peaceful life. It was a very brutal short life. It was full of hardship and had few easy times.

Simple things like storing enough food for winter are a challenge for hunters and an even bigger challenge for nomadic tribes. Historically, hunter-gather tribes suffered a long period of deprivation every winter.

So your premise that hunter-gatherers were "far better off" needs to be proven, not just stated. Where is your evidence that this is a better life? What is the measurement? Is it solely based on the amount of environmental damage?

Second, the land can support far fewer hunter-gatherers than it can farmers. At the current world population, a return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle would mean that a significant portion would have to die as there would not be enough food to feed everyone. Who decides who dies? And what force do you use to enforce it?

Third, isn't it a little ironic to be arguing against modern society using the very tools (computers) provided by modern society? If you really believe what you say, why are you on the Internet and not somewhere attempting to establish a new modern hunter-gatherer collective?

Permalink Reply by lowkey on February 17, 2010 at 2:03pm

one last thing. civilization is built upon slavery and non renewable resources. civilization is finite. knowing this, we need to discover a way to live that isnt entirely based upon slavery and the exploitation of our only home. pretty simple to understand.

All life exists by exploiting the resources (food, shelter, etc) available to it. There can be no life without death (in one form or another). Pretty simple to understand.

Civilization is not finite. The resources to build a civilization are. The test put before every generation is to find new resources or to find more efficient ways to exploit already know resources.

Civilization is only not slavery. As Ann Rand said "Civilization is the process of setting man free from man."

Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 18, 2010 at 9:24am

just to clarify, i am not saying that we should immediately return to some nomadic state. that is why i said "what i desire is a new, sophisticated synthesis of ancient mind and modern mind, of nomadic tribalism (anarcho-primitivism) with the highly technical way of life (futurist). what this philosophy aims to do, is implement all of the beneficial aspects modern life such as, communication, automation, and some modes of transportation, and mesh them within a balanced, peaceful, and semi nomadic anarchistic framework. this is basically what jacques fresco is doing with the Venus project."
i seek a synthesis of both extreme poles. and i seen you asked for proof as to why a nomadic lifestyle is preferable to the modern, well when the pariah were studied, they literally worked no more than 3 hours per day, and had the rest of the day for leisure, art, music, dancing, playing games, etc...comparing that to modern man, if you add a 40 hour work week with driving time, chores, errands, etc, a modern person works nearly 80 hours per week, and most of those hours are solely dedicated to creating wealth for a small minority. that's one example. so, i think that modern man, with his technological innovations, should be able to figure out a way to live that would increase leisure (robotics, automation? less human physical labor but more intellectual and artistic labor), ultimately leading to masses of people being able to add to the common stock of human knowledge by the increased time of leisure. think about a world of peaceful scientists, philosophers, artists. but, i really like your perception thus far, you ask good questions, i think we are close enough to being on the same page...peace!

Permalink Reply by lowkey on February 18, 2010 at 11:18am

well when the pariah were studied, they literally worked no more than 3 hours per day, and had the rest of the day for leisure, art, music, dancing, playing games, etc

OK, before I comment I want to ready up on this group but I'm not finding anything for "pariah" tribe. Where were they located and do you have any links to the studies or summaries?

Thx.

Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 18, 2010 at 1:08pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society
heres a link to the !kung of the kalahari desert in africa.
http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter2-7.php
*misspelled* :piraha" of brazil not pariah, sorry:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people
there are some good sources here:
http://www.raw-food-health.net/HunterGatherers.html
hope this helps!

Permalink Reply by lincoln dyer on February 18, 2010 at 1:38pm

"isn't it a little ironic to be arguing against modern society using the very tools (computers) provided by modern society? If you really believe what you say, why are you on the Internet and not somewhere attempting to establish a new modern hunter-gatherer collective?"
just to answer this, i want to state that i am not anti technology, i believe it is the way you use technology that decides whether its "good" or "bad" , as with anything else in creation, all things have corresponding pluses and negatives.
as of now, i am using this computer for what i believe to be good, conversing, sharing ideas, creating new perceptions etc....but, technology has also made it possible to kill a million with the push of a button, so there are some obvious draw backs too.
in short, i try to use all the tools at my disposal to learn, grow and understand myself and the world a little more. whether its sitting underneath a tree alone with my thoughts, or making a beat on my mpc, I'm using whatever i can to improve myself so i may be able to help others to grow and understand.

Permalink Reply by lowkey on February 18, 2010 at 3:06pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_affluent_society heres a link to the !kung of the kalahari desert in africa. http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter2-7.php
*misspelled* :piraha" of brazil not pariah, sorry:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people
there are some good sources here:
http://www.raw-food-health.net/HunterGatherers.html
hope this helps!

Some interesting links there. A few observations off the top of my head.

1) The Piraha live in a very bountiful environment. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to hunter-gatherers who would live in Alaska, the American southwest or Siberia. So while their story is interesting, it doesn't appear to be something that can scale to a world wide population (even a much smaller one).

2) I have concerns about the reduced education that a hunter-gatherer tribe would most likely experience. While they would cover everything important in their daily lives, they probably would not have resources to discuss and compare philosophies. So I would wonder if a return to a hunter-gatherer state would be a temporary point that would inevitably result in people developing "civilization" all over again. [Note: This is a similar issue I have with Libertarians and other small-government positions. Any shrinking of the government will lead to greater trust of the government, which will result in the government growing .....again.]

3) The critique of "Work" and "Leisure" time was dead on. It seems that the examples of how little hunter-gatherers work are taken way out of context and only count a small portion of their overall activities. Additionally the studies of the Piraha only covered a few weeks. Hardly something you can call a robust study and plan to change all of human society on.

Permalink Reply by Cody Passey on January 19, 2010 at 9:19pm

All I have to say, is fantastic name and a cool irony that really not only shows the ridiculus nature of government, but the ridiculus nature of man. A race so dependent on civilazation yet so yearning for freedom, only says to me: True evil, is ignorance. A man who realizes his yearning for rule, but appreciates and pushes the boundaries of freedom is a happy man if you ask me. What that also tells me is that you NEED these ridiculus governments. Without we would have no base to push away from, no object to develop resentmant for. and lowkey, come down to earth man, these discussions are less intercolligiate lecture and more honest discussion. I dont want to judge before I know ya, but when ever I read your comments, I can picture a man with a well worn thesaurus. :) perhaps I'm just ignorant...

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Permalink Reply by Salient Skivvy on January 31, 2010 at 6:17pm

I enjoy reading lowkeys lectures. Sometimes their drawn out and get boring, but for the most part he's seems to be on the ball.



The problem is finding a leader, who will not be lead by the lust for power. Power corrupts most; it's human nature,

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